與大師同行

求道者: 薩古魯，我要如何超越行動或業力瑜伽?就我個人而言，我沒有做任何事的動力，我感覺自己正進入一種不作為狀態。

SEEKER: Sadhguru，how do I go beyond action or karma yoga? Personally, I have no urge to do anything. I feel like drifting towards a stage of non-doing.

薩古魯:當一個人已在生命中了悟終極實相時，行動就變得沒有意義。一旦行動不再有意義，任何的自我意象也不再重要了。但現在，在你所處的階段，仍需要行動。你還未到達那個已超越行動的分界點，還不能不行動。所以去從事當下你認為最好的行動，去作當下狀況所需要的事。當我在追隨者或門徒身旁時，我想的不是為他們設計些更好的業力，只有一個沒用或已死的古魯才會有更好的業力這種想法，你了解嘛?更好的業力只可能意味著你的古魯是徹底無能的，他可能是沒用、假的，或早就死了、不存在了。

SADHGURU: When a person has made ultimate reality the goal in his life，action becomes meaningless. Once action is meaningless, any kind of self-image is of no great significance；but right now，in the stage you are in, there is still a need for action. You have not yet reached a point where you have transcended action. You are unable to be without action. So perform the kind of action you thik is best right now and do what is needed for the situation. For my people,or my disciples, when I am around, I am not thinking in terms of devising a little better karma for them. This idea of better karma is only when the Guru is either a dud or dead. Do you understand? Better karma can only mean your Guru is either a total dud who is useless and a fake,or he’s dead and gone.    

求道者:薩古魯，你是我見過最聰明、最敏銳、最真的人。

SEEKER: You are the brightest, the most sharp-witted and the most genuine person I have ever met, Sadhguru.

薩古魯: 最聰明與最敏銳，是的。至於真，你如何知道這一個(指自己)不是個沒用之人呢? 在你生存的這個星球上，你永遠不會知道，有時你也會對我感到疑惑，不是嗎? 當然，我知道疑惑會出現，除非你發展出這樣深層的信任--無論你的古魯是真的古魯還是個冒牌貨都沒關係，你對他已經信任到不管怎樣都要跟隨他，在你進入這樣的狀態前，疑惑總是會出現。再說即使他是個無用的古魯，你也沒有辦法知道，你所有的判斷標準都會失準。你要如何判斷真古魯或假古魯呢? 要嘛你就死黏著他，要嘛就離開他，就是這樣而已。你無法對此作出真正判斷，這就是為什麼會有那麼多靈修派別。我問你，你是如何知道的?

SADHGURU: Brightest and sharpest, yes. About being genuine, how do you know that this one is not a dud? On the plane that you exist, you can never know. Doubts do come sometime, don’t they? Yes，I know they come, unless you have developed such a deep trust that it does not matter whether your guru is real or fake-whichever way, you trust in him is such that you will anyway be with him. Until you evolve into such a state, doubts will come. And even if he is dud, there’s no way you can know. All your standards of judgment simply will not hold true. How do you judge whether the person is a genuine Guru or a Fake? Either you jell with him or you don’t. That’s all there is. You can not really make a judgment about it. That’s why so many of the tribe thrive. I am asking you, how will you know?

求道者:一個古魯身上的某種人格特質會吸引一個人，而這種吸引力是超越邏輯的，那也是為什麼我會在這裡與你在一起，薩古魯。

SEEKER: There are certain qualities in a guru which pull an individual beyond his logic and that’s why I am here with you, Sadhguru.

薩古魯: 是哪種特質吸引了你? 你追尋什麼? 看，你只是印象深刻，甚至可能只是被他身為人的那面吸引。也許你喜歡他看起來或說話的方式，甚至只是被他正在進行的工作吸引，對你產生吸引力的事不會超過這些範圍。一個人要能認出一個古魯並成為他的門徒，需要一種不一樣的特質，而不只是被吸引。當阿道夫希特勒決定創建自己的政黨時，他只有一些朋友跟著他，他在地下室對著他們發表極具說服力的演說將他們的想像力推至巔峰，他讓他們相信他很快就能統治世界。當時他只是個無業青年、無名小卒、但卻是極具煽動能力的演說家。對他們而言，他就是那個即將統治一切的上帝，他是這個星球的未來，這是他如何建立自己的自我意象。希特勒的自我意象非常強大，他深信他將統治世界，他的自我意象強大到幾乎要成真了。假如你建立一個沒有破綻的形象，假如大腦和意念能持續不間斷地對焦於某事物，不論那是什麼，它都會成真。

SADHGURU: What are the Qualities that can attract you? What can you look for? See , you are just impressed and maybe even attracted to him as a person. Maybe you like the way he looks or speaks, or even maybe the work that is being done. Your attractions cannot go beyond these things. To recognize a Guru and become his disciple, one needs a different kind of quality. When Adolf Hitler decided to start his own party, he had only a handful of friends with him. He sat in a basement with these people and spoke to them in such forceful ways that fired their imagination to great heights; he made them believe that he was going to take over the world shortly. He was just an unemployed youth, a nobody, but he was such a forceful speaker. To them, he was God who was going to rule. He was the future of this planet. This is how he built his self-image. Hitler's self-image was so powerful, he believed that he would rule the world. His self-image was so powerful that it almost came true. If you create any image without a break in it, if there is a continuous mental focus towards it, it will happen, no matter what.

還有另一種創造的方式，不需要祈求任何事、不需要想任何事，事情就會自然發生。在到達那樣的程度前，我們需要一些激發熱情的行動。沒有經歷過火的人不會知道水的冰涼，一個只求安詳過生活的半調子，永遠不知道其它的可能性。成為一個狂熱者，那怕只是暫時的，也能幫助你的能量沸騰運作起來，然後，要將它們轉化成其它的就容易多了，這就是所有業力或行動的最終目的，一個修行者選擇行動也是為了這個原因。既然我們無論如何都要採取行動，我們可以選擇希特勒那類型的還是聖雄甘地那類型的行動，當下我們覺得哪種方式最好就採取哪種吧！既然我們無論如何都要採取行動，就讓我們全心投入並選擇我們想要的那種方式吧！

There is another way to create without asking for anything, without ever thinking about anything, where things just happen. Before we arrive at that, a little bit of fired-up movement is needed. People who have never been on fire will not know the coolness of water. People who have just lived their life in a halfhearted manner, sedately, can never know the other way. Becoming a fanatic at least for a while can be useful for your energies to reach a boiling point and get moving.Then, to transform them into something else is very easy. That's the whole purpose of karma or action. Why a sadhaka' chooses action is just for this reason. We are going to perform action anyway. Now we have the choice whether we want to perform Hitler's or Mahatma Gandhi's type of action. Whichever way we feel is best right now we'll do that. That's all there is to it. Anyway we have to perform action, so let us do it whole-heart and let us choose the form of action that we want to do.

你知道你想要哪種自我意象嗎？你想要統治世界還是服務世界？追根究底，每個人都想統治這個世界。只是因為一個人總是半調子，所以他只能統治他的老婆。他沒有統治世界，所以他所能作的就是統治他的孩子、老婆或其它類似的，但他真正想要的是統治世界，這蠢蛋沒有足夠的能力或狂熱去實現它，不然，他就是個潛在的希特勒了。一個男人因為孩子或妻子沒有達到他的要求而虐待他們──假設明天他成為世界之王，他會用劍統治而不只是一根棍子。就是這樣，就因為他的無能且沒有統治世界的狂熱，否則，他早就是個統治者了。

Do you know the self-image that you want?　Do you want to rule the world or do you want to serve the world? Ultimately, that is the choice, everybody wants to rule the world. It is just that, because a man is half-hearted, he is only able to rule his wife. He doesn't get to rule the world, so all he's able to do is rule his children, wife or something like that, but what he really wants is to rule the world. The fool doesn't have the capacity or the intensity to do it; otherwise, he would be a potential Hitler. The man who physically abuses his child or wife because they don't conform to his ideas - suppose that tomorrow he is made the king of the world, he will use a sword instead of a stick. That's all. It is just that he's incapable and doesn't have the intensity to rule the world; otherwise, he is already the ruler.

現有的選擇就是──統治他人或服務他人，無論你認為哪種形象最和諧、最接近神性和真實，就採取那種行動。每一刻，都帶著巨大的狂熱不留片刻喘息餘地，然後有一天，那個不再需要任何行動的時刻就會來臨。一個不知道什麼是實際行動、狂熱行動的人，將永遠無法到達無為境界。假如你硬要嘗試無為，所謂的無為只會變成昏睡、死氣沉沉。你只有了解何謂狂熱行動才能了解何謂無為。一個一生中總是在休息的人一定最有經驗的休息者吧？是嗎？但實情不是這樣，只有狂熱工作過的人才知道何謂休息。關於什麼都不作這件事，假如你真的想理解它，首先你必須探索什麼是作。你還沒做到這一點呢！

Now the choice is just this - either to rule or to serve. Whichever kind of image you think is most harmonious, the closest to Divinity and closest to Realization, that kind of action you choose. Every moment, do it with tremendous intensity, without giving it a single moment's break. Then a day will come when action is not needed anymore. A man who does not know action - real action, intense action - can never move into inaction. If you try to, inaction will just become lethargy. Only if you have known intense action can you know inaction. People who are always resting in their life must be experts about rest, isn't it? But that is not the truth. Only a man who works intensely can know what rest is. So this non-doing business, if you really want to know it, first you must discover what doing is. You have not done that yet.

在生命中醒著的每一刻，我從未間斷地在奉獻我自己--身體上與精神上。
每天２４小時，每一醒著的時刻甚至在睡眠中，我持續不斷地以極大的狂熱投注於奉獻，就因為這樣，我生命中所有的一切才會發生，只是因為這一切對我而言沒有任何意義所以這些奉獻變得更有力量，但每天24小時我都為此忙個不停。現在它有了全然不同的力量，這就是犧牲的真意。就因為這樣的投入，有些事在內在與外在發生了，這很難用語言描述。世界上有很多聖人，甚至在今天，那些開悟的存在仍在散播著他們的能量，但他們自己不作任何事。只有少數人持續地忙個不停，只因為他們日復一日不間斷地忙碌，有些東西被創造出來了。辯喜大師就是這樣被創造出來的，他不是生來就是辯喜大師，聖雄甘地也是這樣被創造出來，世界上每一個強大的存在個體都是這樣被創造出來的，這是門創造真正強大存在的技術。這不是用來統治的力量，不是那種隨時可以被奪取的力量，沒有人可以拿走它，因為無論被安置在哪裡，你所要做的就是持續忙碌地奉獻。假如你想要統治，你必須坐上那個位置，假如有人把你從位置上扯下來，你會嚎啕大哭。這不是那樣力量，不論你被安置在哪裡，你就是作著你的奉獻工作。外在情況怎樣、最終行動結果如何都不要緊，因為無論如何你都在奉獻、服務。假如他們把你丟入地獄，你在地獄忙著奉獻，假如他們把你放進天堂，你就在天堂忙著奉獻。

In every waking moment of my life, unceasingly I pursue this work of offering myself, physically and mentally. Unceasingly I pursue it twenty-four hours of the day, every waking moment and even in my sleep, with tremendous intensity. It is only out of that, that all of this has happened in my life. It has become so powerful simply because it does not mean anything to me, but for twenty-four hours, I am at it. Now this has a different kind of power. That is the whole meaning of sacrifice. It is only out of that, that something else happens - both inside and outside - which can never be put into words. There have been many sages in the world, Realized beings who, even today, are spreading their energy, but by themselves, they are not able to do anything. Only a few are unceasingly at it, day in and day out and only out of this, something can be created. This is how Vivekanandas are created. They are not born. This is how Mahatma Gandhis are created. This is how every powerful individual in this world is created. This is the science of creating a truly powerful being. This is not power to rule. This is not a power that can be taken away at any moment. Nobody can take it away, because wherever you are put, that is what you do. If you want to rule, you have to sit on the seat. If somebody pulls you off the seat, you will be miserable. This is not like that. Wherever you are put, you just do your work. It does not matter what the situation is, what the result of your action is, because that's what you do anyway. If they put you in hell, that is what you do. If they put you in heaven, still, that is what you do.

這會讓你從行動中釋放出來。首先，它將你從行動結果中釋放，一旦你從行動結果中解脫，行動將會自行發生，你不必為了從行動中解脫而停止工作。簡而言之，它會自行解體、消融、消失。一旦把對行動結果的期待從生活中移除，你不需做任何事，行動將自行發生。

This releases you from action. First of all, this releases you from the fruit of action. Once you are released from the fruit of action, the action will happen by itself. You don't have to stop working to be released from action. Simply, it will dissolve, melt and disappear. Once the expectation of the fruit of action is completely removed from your life, the action occurs by itself. You don't have to do anything about it.

在一座禪寺裡，有一位八十多歲的老住持，他每天用心地在花園裡工作，在禪寺裡，園藝工作是修行中最重要的部分之一，人們日復一日地花了很多時間在花園裡，而老住持作著園藝工作也已經好幾年了。現在他已經八十多歲，身體也虛弱了，但他仍不願停下園藝工作。一整天，他都在花園裡忙碌著，他的弟子們多次試著勸阻他，他們說，＂你別作了，我們都在這，我們會作的！＂。但他根本不聽勸，繼續作著他能作的。他身體的勞動能力也許下降了，但他的意願和熱情從未減低，他工作時仍帶著相同的狂熱。所以有一天，他的弟子將他工作時會用到的工具拿走並藏起來，那一天，他沒有吃飯。隔天，仍然沒有工具可以工作，所以他又沒吃飯。第三天，沒工具，他又沒吃飯。那時弟子們開始驚慌，＂喔～因為我們藏了他的工具，他生氣了，所以他不願意吃飯！＂於是他們將工具放回它們平常放置的地方，第四天，老住持工作了，也吃了飯。那天傍晚，他向他的弟子們開示，＂不作，不食。＂回房後，老住持圓寂了，那是最後一天。四天的斷食對老住持來說太激烈了，但最後一天，他工作了，他進食，然後他離開肉體，留下了＂不作，不食＂的開示。對這樣的人而言，行動就是這樣，無論他被放置在哪裡，那就是他會有的樣子。地獄、天堂或地球，你將他放在這些不同世界的任何一個裡，他都是一樣的。一旦，你也變成這樣，你就能從外界情境中解脫，只是閉上眼睛，你不會解脫的，在你張開眼睛的那瞬間，所有的事情都會衝回來並死抓著你，假如你脫逃到深山裡坐著，你也不會自由。這才是解決的方法──它必須被＂解決＂才會消失。

In one of the Zen monasteries, there is an old Master who is over eighty years old. Every day, he works his heart out in the gardens. In Zen monasteries, gardening is one of the most important parts of the sadhana. Day in and day out, people spend time in the garden. This Master has been doing this for years. Now he is over eighty and has become weak, but he does not stop. The whole day, he works in the garden. Many times his disciples have tried to dissuade him. They say, "You stop working, we are all here, we will do it," but he will not listen. He just goes on doing what he can. His capacity to work physically might have come down, but the intensity has not come down. He works with the same intensity. So one day the disciples took away his tools and hid them somewhere, as he will work only with these tools. That day, he did not eat. The next day, there were no tools, so he did not eat. The third day also, no tools; he did not eat. By then they got scared, "Oh! Because we hid the tools, he is angry. He is not eating." Once again, they replaced the tools where they were usually placed. On the fourth day. he worked and ate. Then in the evening, he gave his teaching: "No work, no food," and he went back and died. That was the last day. The four days of fasting were too much for him; but the last day he worked, he ate, then he left his body, and he just gave this teaching: "No work, no food." For this kind of a man, action is like this. Wherever he is put, that is how he will be. Hell, heaven or earth, you put him in any of these different worlds and he will be the same. Once you are like this, you are released from the external situation. By just closing your eyes, you will not become released. The moment you open them, everything will come back and catch up with you. If you run away and sit on the mountain, you will not become free. This is the way to work it out. It has to be worked out.

求道者:薩古魯，這是否意味著我們要從事好的行動來幫助我們從累積的壞業力中解脫?

Seeker: Sadhguru, does this mean that we should perform good actions that will free us from the bad karma we have accumulated?

薩古魯:業力是以”GUNAS”作為分類的，什麼是”GUNA”?那是一種質量。用質量表示這個字並不準確，印度徒經常談論三種類型的GUNSAS (註，悅性、變性、惰性)，佛教徒將它分成七種類型，這只是我們作出的分類。業力也可以被分成好業力與壞業力，我所要說的是，不論是好業力或壞業力，它都是一種束縛。對那些只想過舒適生活的人來說，這個分類很重要。他們總是想著如何造好業，以便下一世投胎成有錢、幸福、過舒服生活的人。只有對生活在二元性中的人，才有好與壞的業力的分類。對於想超脫生死的人而言，好業力和壞業力一樣沒價值，對他而言，業力就是業力，怎麼分類都無所謂。對一個有靈性的人來說，業力都是不好的，好業力和壞業力都是不好的業力。對一個要超越二元性與存在合一的人而言，已沒有所謂的好與壞，對他而言，所有的業力都是一種障礙、束縛，他想拋開所有束縛。不是那種”如果你要我揹黃金，100公斤我都願意，如果是一百公斤的垃圾，我才不要!”，不是那種態度，一個追尋者要的是”我要放下所有負荷!” 無論是黃金或垃圾，都很重，但傻瓜們認為揹黃金是很棒的事。Nicholas，你了解這之間的區別嗎? 一個人若有足夠智慧就會了解不論揹的是黃金或垃圾，都是累贅麻煩，那些認為黃金比垃圾好的傢伙是因為他們現在正揹著垃圾。

Sadhguru: Karmas are classified in terms of gunas. What is a guna? It is a quality. Quality is not exactly the word. The Hindus generally talk about three types of gunas. The Buddhists classify them into seven types. It is just a classification that we can make. Karma can be classified as good karma and bad karma. What I am saying is, whether it is good karma or bad karma, it is still bondage. For people who are only interested in leading a comfortable life, this classification is important. They are always thinking how to perform good karma so that they will be born with wealth, well-being and comfort in their next life. Only a person who is living with duality, for that person there is good and bad karma. For a person who is thinking in terms of transcending life and death, good karma is as useless as bad. To him, karma is just karma; any classification does not matter. All karma is bad for a spiritual person. Good or bad, it's bad for him. For a person who wants to transcend duality, become one with existence, for that person there is no good and bad. All karma is a barrier, a burden for him. He wants to drop all burdens. It's not like, "If you give me gold, I'm willing to carry even one hundred kilos, but if you give me one hundred kilos of garbage, I will not carry it." That's not the attitude. For a seeker it is, "I want to drop the load.” Whether it's gold or garbage, both are heavy, but the other fools think carrying gold is great. Do you understand the difference, Nicholas? A man, who has become wise enough, sees that whether he carries gold or garbage, it is anyway burdensome. The other man is thinking gold will be better than garbage because right now he's carrying garbage.

求道者:大師，除了行為，業力也受思想影響嗎?

Seeker: Master, is karma also affected by thoughts and not just deeds?

薩古魯:看，這時你說這是好思想那是壞思想，這是好行為那是壞行為-假如有人做了壞行為，那麼他就是壞人，不是嗎？”是啊！我是好人，你是壞人！”顯而易見！好與壞是那些賣天堂門票的人發明出來的。有次一位老派的傳教士描述著審判日的細節，當然他盡可能地引用聖經章節，＂喔～我的朋友，＂他語調誇張地說著，＂想像那罪人的痛苦，當他們發現自己被拋棄在外面的黑暗中，從上主面前被拉走，熊熊烈火砸落在他們身上，我的朋友，在那樣的時刻他們會哭泣、嚎叫、咬牙切齒。＂就在這一刻，一位年老的會眾打斷了他，＂可是，牧師，如果其中一位無望的罪人沒有牙齒怎麼辦？＂傳教士握緊拳頭打在佈道桌上，＂我的朋友，耶和華沒有公佈這些細節，但請放心，到時會提供牙齒！＂好與壞就是這種人發明的。

Sadhguru: See, the moment you say this is a good thought and that's a bad thought, this is a good deed and that is a bad deed - if somebody is doing the bad deed then he's a bad person, isn't it? "Yeah! I am a good man; you are a bad man." It's obvious! Good and bad were mainly invented by people who are selling tickets to heaven. Once a preacher of the old school was describing the events of judgment day, and of course, he used biblical phraseology whenever he could, "Oh! My friends," he intoned "imagine the suffering of the sinners as they find themselves cast in the outer darkness, removed from the presence of the Lord and given to eternal flames. My friends, at such a time they will be weeping, wailing and gnashing their teeth." At this point one of the eldest of the congregation interrupted, “But reverend. what if one of these hopeless sinners has no teeth?" The preacher crashed his fist on the pulpit, "My friends, the Lord is not put out by details, and rest assured, teeth will be provided." These are the kind of people who invented good and bad.

每一行動都有後果，當我說＂行動＂時指的不只是身體，它不只與身體有關，行動包含思想、情感、能量。會給你的人生帶來負面後果的行動，你們通常將它歸類為不好的行動。這個問題不是關於不好的行動，只是不同的行動會產生不同類型的後果罷了。作為一個人，你要作的只是──我們每個人都有這樣的智慧作到──假如你有足夠的意識你會看到每一個行動都有一個後果。如果你可以喜悅地接受所有後果，那就去做任何你想要作的事；但假如你今天作了某事，後果發生時你卻無法接受而哭泣，那麼請削減你的行動、思想、情感或其它類似的，不要起頭你無法處理的事。這無關好壞，而是要明智地過你的人生，現在，不要撿你帶不動的石頭，就是這麼簡單，每一個行動都選擇你可以處理的。假如你將這樣的意識帶入生活，你就不必擔心好與壞，你只會作對你而言需要作的，不多也不少。

Every action has a consequence. When I say, 'action', it is not just of the body. It does not pertain to body alone. Action can be of thought, emotion or energy. An action which brings a negative consequence into your life, you generally try to term it as a bad action. It is not a Question of bad action, it's just that different actions produce different kinds of consequences. As a human being, your business is just this - every one of us has the intelligence to do this - if you are aware enough you can see that for every single action there is a consequence. If you can joyfully accept the consequence, do anything that you wish to do, but if you do something today and when the consequence comes, you cry, then please curtail your actions, thoughts, emotions, or whatever. Do not start something that you cannot handle. This is not about good and bad; this is just about living your life sensibly. Now you don't pick up a rock that you cannot carry - it is as simple as that. You pick up something that you can handle. So every action is just that. If you bring it into your awareness, you don't have to worry about what is good and bad; you will just do what is needed for you - nothing more, nothing less.

摘自薩古魯與弟子們的對話集      Mystic’s musings